FACT CHECK – Same-Sex ‘Marriage’ Won’t affect Anyone

On Tuesday 2 August, ABC's The Drum showed their bias by presenting a half hour debate on same-sex “marriage” with just one supporter of traditional marriage, ACL's Lyle Shelton, up against a stacked panel of four SSM advocates. Hardly what any reasonable person would call a fair debate.

Regardless, Lyle presented a strong case for maintaining the current definition of marriage, despite constant interruptions from fellow panellists and the host.

Tiernan Brady, Irish same-sex “marriage” campaign director, made a startling claim about the few countries who have legalised same-sex “marriage”:

“All those predictions of terrible, unforeseen circumstances never came through… All that happened was that nobody lost anything and one small group of people in society – our lesbian and gay friends and family members – were allowed to get married.”

Let's take a closer look at what's really been happening in those countries...

Oregan, USA | A Christian baker was forced to pay $135,000 to a gay couple after refusing to bake a cake for their wedding. Aaron Klein and his wife Melissa have been forced to close their cake shop following the drawn out legal battle. They said they happily served gay customers to make birthday cakes but for religious reasons, could not bake a cake for a gay wedding.  This was deemed to violate civil rights.

Denver, USA | Another bakery suffered a similar fate after refusing to bake a cake for a cake wedding. This article from LGBTQ Nation also links to a story about a florist and a photographer facing legal action for refusing to participate in a gay wedding.

Coeur d‘Alene, Idaho | City officials laid down the law to Christian pastors within their community, telling them bluntly via an ordinance that if they refuse to marry homosexuals, they will face jail time and fines.

USA | Brendan Eich, founcer of Mozilla was forced to resign following relentless bullying from gay rights campaigners because he donated to the 2008 Plebiscite in which Americans voted 'No' to Genderless Marriage.

Denmark | Homosexual couples in Denmark won the right to get married in any church they choose, even though nearly one third of the country's priests have said they will refuse to carry out the ceremonies.

Vancouver, Canada | Now that SSM is done and dusted in Canada, the message is clear: "[T]he gay rights movement is shifting norms in Canada. And with that comes a message  to those who won't evolve: your outdated morals are no longer acceptable, and we will teach your kids the new norms." ~ Robin Perelle, Xtra Vancouver.

Ontario, Canada | Ontario ­Superior Court of Justice upheld the Ontario Law Society’s decision (Trinity Western University v The Law Society of Upper ­Canada) to deny accreditation to the law school at Trinity Western University. The society did so ­because of this Christian university’s requirement that staff and students sign a covenant that forbids all sexual activity unless it is between a husband and a wife. The Ontario court ruled that though the decision by the Law Society infringed the right to ­religious freedom, the university’s covenant on sexual behaviour discriminated against homosexual marriage, which is legal in Canada. The judgment described the essential issue as “involving a clash between religious freedom and equality”.

United Kingdom | In the lead-up to legalising same-sex “marriage”: Mothers and fathers disappeared from birth certificates of surrogate children to allow homosexual couples to be named as parents.

Ireland | In Tiernan's homeland, a bakery owner was subjected to a lengthy legal battle for refusing to write the words “Support Gay Marriage” on a cake.

Victoria, Australia | Genderless Marriage isn't even legal here yet and already it's begun. Say that you support traditional marriage and you will be dragged before the courts, like Archbishop Porteous.

Tiernan also claimed their was no link whatsoever between the Safe Schools Coalition and same-sex “marriage”, but that's not what Safe Schools co-founder Roz Ward told a rally in Melbourne: “It is a total contradiction to say we want (the) Safe Schools Coalition, but you can’t get married to the person that you love,”

He also claimed that SSM advocates maintained respectful debate. We have never seen the word “bigot” used with such reckless abandon as in the last 12 months of debate by SSM advocates in Parliament. If it's not the Greens, it's Bill Shorten himself and even Penny Wong using words like 'bigot'and 'homophobe' to describe anyone who supports traditional marriage or who doesn't agree with their children, as young as 4, being told that their gender is fluid. There have even been cover ups for the real agenda of the Safe Schools Program and Senator Cory Bernardi's office AND HIS CHILDREN'S SCHOOL were targeted by protesters. Tom Gilchrist, Adelaide University’s Student Representative Council president, and several other SRC members from the socialist group Student Voice were among the protesters.

Sure, there will always be unsolicited, unpleasant comments on social media from both sides of the debate, no matter the issue, but surely we should be able to expect better behaviour from our elected representatives... right?

So, Tiernan, we give you a FACT CHECK: FAIL

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23 Responses

  1. The LGBTIAQ lobby-dictators believe nothing has happened since the introduction of “same-sex marriage.” I think the Guardian summed up the state of the world since governments and Supreme court in western countries embraced a Humanist’s “Marriage Equality” – “The world is going to Hell in a basket.” I wouldn’t believe any word said by a LGBTIAQ lobby-dictator because they’re living in a total fantasy land like Alice in Wonderland, and words don’t make sense.

    I received a letter from the Family Law Branch as I have exposed a dilemma for a Humanist’s “Marriage Equality.” The Attorney-General, Senator the Hon George Brandis QC will need to work on this for the plebiscite. There are two groups of married couples in Australia 1. Couples whom have married for religious reasons – God’s Law on marriage 2. Couples married for a legal reasons and they purchased a state marriage certificate. The couples whom have married for a religious reason haven’t been made to purchase a state marriage certificate, but this will cause an absolute nightmare for the government if this group no longer identify their marriage in the created Humanist’s “Marriage Equality.” I will be identifying my marriage with the original meaning “One Flesh” union. There is no reason for the next generation to get married for the purpose of “Harm minimisation” or to purchase a state marriage certificate. Australians are beginning to not trust our governments including the ABS (big brother), and the governments involvement in the Safe (dangerous) school coalition program. The dictators forced Marxist ideology including homosexuality and transgender theories onto our children without parental consent. The next generation will have less faith in the government being able to define their marriage and family as the law could separate them from their biological children. When there is no underlying belief system to get married into a Humanist’s “Marriage Equality,” then there is no reason for couples to voluntary get married, especially when they understand this gives the government the power to take control over their marriage and family.

    When I got married over 18 years ago, every adult Australian understood the meaning and purpose of marriage. The letter from the Family Law Branch stated, “respect for different views.” Therefore, the LGBTIAQ lobby-dictators have divided Australians on marriage, family, community – church, sporting groups, CWA etc, businesses, companies, schools, health services, legal services and governments. I will be extremely angry with Rodney Croome if he interferes with the government’s commitment to conducting a plebiscite as soon as practicable. The government are concerned that Christians are unable to celebrate or participate in the abuse (sin) of sodomy in marriages for the purpose of harm minimisation – high rate of LGBTIAQ suicides. However, Christians are unable to pretend marriage will decreased suicide rate in all LGBTIAQ people as there is no scientific evidence to prove there is link between marriage and suicide rates. It is so ridiculous when Rodney Croome associates marriage with suicide as this can only have a negative impact on our society. It is obvious he has no logical or rational scientific understanding of health and relationships. His mind-set is extremely dangerous as he has no respect for Christians whom have a moral conscience.

  2. AMF please for the sake of your own credibility make sure that your facts have been independently verified and stand up to scrutiny. Otherwise I would respectfully suggest that you are in real danger of damaging your own case, especially given the presentation as a ‘fact check’.
    Just to take four items from your list which I have had occasion to check for my own work:
    1. The Galveston case report is taken from a semi satirical site World News Daily Report and should be treated with great caution.
    2. The Idaho wedding chapel case has been very significantly misrepresented. The couple involved ran a secular American style wedding chapel and were not ordained ministers of a recognized denomination.., They misunderstood the relevant local authority regulations and decided to close the chapel themselves.
    3. In Denmark clergy are not forced to perform same sex marriages. The law relates to the churches themselves and reflects their legal standing as buildings for public use. (In the same way here in Australia school buildings built with public funding under the Building the Education Revolution program are required to be made available for public purposes even if they belong to faith based schools)
    4. Most embarrassing of all: Northern Ireland is not Tiernan Brady’s homeland. It is an entirely separate country from (the Republic of ) Ireland and still does not have SSM. The Ashers Bakery case is complex in legal terms and even SSM advocates such as Peter Tatchell consider that the complexities were not understood initially. There is a basic point of contract involved (the cake had been ordered and paid for) but far more importantly there is a fundamental issue of free speech which would apply just as clearly if a gay baker was asked to decorate a cake with a slogan opposing SSM. These are issues that do need to be clarified but this has to be done in specific legal terms.As far as I know the appeal is still ongoing but it is being conducted in these terms.

    • AJ

      Sorry to spoil your ‘gotcha’moment, Margaret:
      1. You’ll find another reference to this story here: http://contemporarychristianlifestyle.com/incredible-us-court-jails-pastor-for-not-marrying-gay-cousins/
      Perhaps you would prefer this story: http://townhall.com/tipsheet/christinerousselle/2016/07/03/christian-mingle-ordered-to-accept-gay-singles-n2186922
      Or bullying like this: http://www.exeterexpressandecho.co.uk/church-accused-of-discrimination-for-refusing-to-bless-gay-marriage/story-29409169-detail/story.html
      Or this: http://www.gaystarnews.com/article/jewish-school-ordered-teach-lgbti-issues/
      We could go on and on and on…
      2. It doesn’t matter if the man was a dentist, the fact is that when SSM is legalised, freedom of religion and making decisions based on religious belief are illegal.
      3. Where SSM is legalised, churches are forced to participate.
      4. This poor couple is still embroiled in a legal battle. That is the point. The bullying tactics of the SSM lobby gained weight once SSM was legalised south of the border.

      Face it. Redefining marriage means redefining freedom. Claims that it won’t affect anyone are a lie.

    • AMF that wasn’t a gotcha moment.I’m a bit old for that sort of thing.

      Sad that you should simply take it as as gotcha moment rather than an honest attempt to warn you that others more knowledgable than I am would question at the very least your sources and almost certainly the stories themselves.
      However if you are unable to accept it in that spirit… So be it.

      I’m not for a moment saying there will be no consequences if SSM is legalised.There will no doubt be some test cases, some more frivolous than others.Isn’t it better to consider some real issues that might affect Australia rather than some rather luridly presented ones from other countries that often turn out to reflect very different situations? We don’t thank goodness have wedding chapels here and we do have a far more rigorous control of faith based marriage celebrants. However have you for example considered the situation of marriage celebrants if the law changes?

      You are still misrepresenting the Idaho case. Firstly there was a misunderstanding and secondly the case had to do with the status of the premises.

      There are no cases to my knowledge anywhere in the world where Churches (denominational bodies) are forced to participate.Certainly not in Denmark.And this cannot happen in Australia because as the Presbyterian Church discussion has highlighted all Churches need to do is to relinquish their status as (civil) marriage celebrants. Some of us also accept the word of politicians that there will be safeguards that will render such a move unnecessary, but i accept some don’t.

      “The bullying tactics of the SSM lobby gained weight once SSM was legalised south of the border.” You do realise how long the Ashers Bakery case has been running? Since May 2014. A whole year before the referendum ‘south of the border’. Would it really have hurt you so much to admit that you had made a mistake…? And as I said prominent members of the gay community have spoken out in favour of the principle on which the appeal is taking place. It is incidentally a test case, funded by an outside group (Christian Legal Centre)? And this I accept will form part of the outcome if SSM is legalised, because test cases are (sometimes) helpful.
      One thing we can surely agree on is that there are important principles at stake here on both sides of the argument.

      So much the worse for all of us if we can’t debate respect fully and with due regard for the complexities of the matter.

      • The Galveston case is a hoax (your second source leads back to the first).

        The Jewish school case is misleadingly reported: the school has been forbidden to take new students until it complies with a variety of conditions relating to approval of independent schools.A notable deficiency ironically is in its teaching not respecting women.

        The Exeter case is a typical small provincial newspaper story of a local couple seeking sympathy, there is no formal ‘accusation’ involved.

        I am very willing to accept there are real and serious issues that require our attention some of which may relate to what has happened overseas, but it still seems to me rather unwise to present ones that lack substance or in some cases even a basis in fact.

        • AMF Many thanks for editing out several of the stories which I accept that you posted in good faith.I’ve reached the conclusion in my own work that I simply have to take the time to go back to the original primary sources.It’s well worth the extra time and effort.
          Having said that please feel free to delete all of my comments from this conversation since they relate for the most part to stories you have now deleted. The Ireland reference I regard as somewhat embarrassing because of the tragic history of s the separation of the two countries and because it is so easy for anyone from a British background to refute.

    • The blasphemy of 2 men or 2 women attempting to emulate marriage will never take place in a Victorian Presbyterian church. If the Australian public is deluded enough to vote for speeding up our descent into madness, the church will not be marrying anyone legally, however ceremonies shall continue where a man and a woman love each other and wish to marry till death do them part, forsaking all others, for richer for poorer, in sickness and in health. This will be in the sight of God, and under His Authority alone. (Couples wishing to marry legally for tax purposes are encouraged to do what gay people are already able to do, and apply this formality at Births, Deaths and Marriages). I encourage other churches to do the same. Denmark’s legal ruling is evil in the sight of God – and when we have a government which legislates bad morality, we owe our allegiance to Jesus Christ, first and foremost.

      Anyone who reckons inscribing into LAW this farce. A law will NOT make any homosexuals happy. They will never be able to be married and have children because they are rejecting God’s plan for them, by choice and in full rebellion to the teachings of the Bible, and to the voice of their consciences, and to the good of their community (no, not the “gay community”, OUR community: we all live together and its important that we have moral standards, or that we try to slow their decline).

  3. I missed the part where the AMF somehow gained the authority to issue meaningful fact-checks. These incidents are about anti-discrimination laws. Unless you’d also ban racial and religious minorities from getting married because these laws also cover them, you don’t have a leg to stand on.

    • AJ

      Exactly Nick! Once SSM is legalised, freedom of speech and freedom of religion are re-categorized as discrimination. Anyone who supports traditional marriage is suddenly a criminal. Redefining marriage means redefining freedom. Claims that it won’t affect anyone are a lie.

      • The United States Court of Appeals for the Seventh Circuit just issued a ruling saying a lesbian woman couldn’t sue for employment discrimination because the Civil Rights Act doesn’t cover it. So despite gay marriage becoming legal in America, the anti-discrimination law did not change to cover sexual orientation.

        Let me ask you this: the QUT case is coming down this week. It was filed by an absurdly oversensitive Aboriginal woman. And there are bound to be complaints about Bill Leak’s vile cartoon today. Should Aboriginals be banned from getting married?

      • AJ,
        The only way Christians are going to avoid confronting the Anti-discrimination Act is remove themselves from the Humanist’s “Marriage Equality” because of the abuse (sin) of Sodomy ( it doesn’t matter if it is done by gays or not – not discriminating). Christians will have to identify their marriage with the original meaning “One Flesh” union (no discrimination). This appears to be the only way legally for Christians to avoid the expensive court cases. Christian churches will re-write their constitutions to exclude blessing the abuse (sin) of sodomy for same-sex and man-woman couples, and only bless “One Flesh” unions. The government doesn’t force churches to turn into bars, pubs, escort agencies, whore houses, Disneyland or gaming centres. Therefore, the government can’t make churches into celebrating and participating in the abuse (sin) of sodomy. Christians understand the Humanist’s “Marriage Equality” may become legal, but this is only for “Harm minimisation.” There is not any scientific, medical or nursing evidence for encouraging and promoting the abuse of body parts against their function such as smoking causes lung cancer, excessive alcohol consumption leads to cirrhosis of the liver, anal and oral sexual activities cause faecal incontinence, throat infections, anal cancer, anal fistulas, STDs/HPV/HIV/AIDS, infertility, parasitic diseases, shorten-life-span. The scientific evidence shows there are significant harmful health and relationship problems from practicing anal and oral sexual activities as the same as sexual intercourse, and also the problem of domestic violence.

        The Humanist’s “Marriage Equality” will be associated with “Harm minimisation” for prevention of suicide. The government makes it legal to smoke, consume alcohol and gamble, but it doesn’t require the church or Christians to participate in these behaviours and practices. The government makes it legal to have an affairs/adultery, prostitution, fornication, but it doesn’t require the church or Christians to participate in these behaviours and practices. When discussing these things with lawyers they agree this is the way forward for Christians as they don’t need to associate themselves with a government and legal Humanist’s “Marriage Equality” which goes against Gods Laws on marriage and divorce. Christians can go to the true meaning of marriage “One Flesh” unions, and totally avoid using the words marriage, weddings, Mr and Mrs, wife and husband as these are more cultural and traditional. God gives Christians the freedom to identify in Christ, and not of the things of this world. Christians need the freedom to communicate the truth in love, and not to be afraid of the hope we have in Christ. I’m not at all worried about not identifying with the title married because it would make it easier dealing with people whom are single, divorced or separated. Christians can’t get into trouble with the Anti-discrimination Act if they’re treating everyone as the same. They won’t be able to bake a Humanist’s Marriage Equality” cake for gays or man-woman (no discrimination). Christians will have to decide how they will celebrate “One Flesh” unions, and this may be very different from the current white wedding dresses, flowers, cakes, photos etc. Christians can make these occasions a lot cheaper to celebrate because the cultural tradition hasn’t been established. I am praying that God keeps the Marriage Act the same, but if it is changed we’ll have nothing to do with the Humanist’s “Marriage Equality” -“Harm minimisation.”

      • AJ,

        The reason Christians are going to have to “come out” with their sexual orientation being “One Flesh” union is because “heterosexual” is protected under the Anti-discrimination Act. Therefore, LGBTIAQ lobby-dictators can’t state anything offensive about sexual intercourse, heterosexuals or “One Flesh” unions. LGBTIAQ lobby-dictators can get into serious trouble with the anti-discrimination Act if they label our sexual orientation “One Flesh” union as bigoted, homophobes or wrong-side of history or prejudice as this is the same as calling LGBTIAQ people names about their sexual orientation. Christians have to play on an equal level with the Anti-discrimination Act in order to not come into trouble with the law.

  4. Of course, we can avoid the cost of a same sex marriage plebiscite in Australia by simply leaving the Marriage Act as it is – no cost there…..and parliament has already voted on the Marriage Act about 10 years ago and it passed with the support of Labor politicians, so the matter should be done and dusted. However, the same sex marriage people want the change and are facilitating such an intense push that it requires an expensive solution to resolve. They cause the problem and then claim to be part of the solution. Their suffering that they claim to have is all self-inflicted. To claim that it is a human right is also a nonsense because marriage is already available to gays –it’s just that they must marry the opposite sex, but they choose not to. Marriage has always been a choice and it always will be. It is not a right. Even the European Union has recently acknowledged this. It is not listed as a right with the United Nations and same sex marriage was never considered necessary or desirable in the history of marriage in Australia until only the past few years after John Howard orchestrated a definition in the Marriage Act – a definition that stated the obvious and reflected the millennia-old institution of marriage. The only reason that it is now being redefined to include same sex relationships is not to enhance marriage or make it more desirable, but rather to make it a ”sex-based” instead of a “family-based” institution. It’s role in society would be completely changed into something self-gratifying instead of a social structure for the good of all citizens. All those past civilisations supposedly got it wrong because we are the “enlightened, smart, progressive” ones?….hmmm….not likely! The irony is that the very reason that marriage has become so desirable in the first place (based on the commitment between a man and a woman primarily, but not always, to raise children as a family unit), is destroyed if it’s definition is changed…..in other words, the people pushing for same sex marriage destroy what they want by getting what they want. There is no “marriage equality” when they leave out ALL the various marriage “options” (such as polygamy, marry yourself, two brothers or two sisters marrying each other or, as Chris Sevier in the USA is trying to do, marrying your laptop, etc). Seeing as there is no legal, historical or rational basis to call marriage a human right or to redefine it to include same sex people, it leads us to the question of what are the other agendas in play here with the SSM issue?….It is certainly the formal severing of marriage from parenthood (a population control measure?) and the rights of children are ignored to serve the selfish desires of the SSM parents (another stolen generation?). Btw, we keep hearing that heterosexuality is supposedly a “gender construct” and should therefore be dumped along with all other gender distinctions, yet we also keep hearing about LGBTIQAP+ (the “+” is for HIV+ positive people) which, of course, means that LGBTIQAP+ people are guilty of using “gender constructs” themselves. Also, in a bid to try and say that homosexuality is natural, the same sex marriage advocates come up with new scientific research of “homosexual” activity within the animal kingdom….hmmm….obviously, if this were true, then the so-called “homosexual” animals would be extinct –that’s right, they would have died off long ago because they cannot have any offspring. The so-called scientific research can never determine if the “homosexual” activity even occurs because it is a subjective observation in itself, plus it can never know if the “homosexual” activity is driven by homosexual urges or not – in other words, the research can only determine “how” the activity occurs but can never determine “why” the activity occurs (ie. does the “homosexual” gorilla or eagle tell them??….ANSWER: no). Needless to say, the same sex marriage push fails on all counts.

    There is also considerable discrimination within the homosexual community as plenty of media articles have admitted. Within the gay community, there is a stereotype of the ideal “gay guy” and if you don’t fit this stereotype, then you are rejected. After all, the primary desire for homosexual relationships is sex and so the primary criteria for a gay partner is “sex appeal”. What the advocates of the gay agenda refuse to reveal is that any sex-driven relationship (whether homosexual or heterosexual) is doomed from the start because it is a selfish, lust-based relationship that can never survive for long leaving a trail of hurt and destruction in it’s wake. There is even raced-based roles that homosexuals have making homosexuality extremely racist as well. Another same sex marriage dilemma is their difficulty to get a divorce. This has also been written in the media by gay people. Same sex marriages hit a hurdle when one of the partners get tired of the sex and inevitably wants a different partner (gays are rarely monogamous or have long term relationships), Hence, they want easy divorce laws to match their promiscuous, “anything goes” marriage laws. We can now see that gays are desperately wanting to be able to use the word “marriage” to gain some respectability that they self-consciously lack – everyone has an innate awareness that same sex relationships aren’t right or natural no matter how much propaganda, emotional manipulation, social engineering or intimidation goes on….so it’s not about marriage equality at all.

    Sometimes the truth hurts. Exposing “anything-goes” sex programs like the “Safe Schools” program (more accurately, it is the “unSafe Schools” program) in Australia and exposing the same sex agenda is a good thing – we are exposing the broad sinister agendas that have nothing to do with “equality”. “love”, “tolerance”, “non-discrimination”, etc. There is also the “Building Better Relationships” program promoting sex-depraved immorality as being normal . So for some people to try to undermine the family unit and create the illusion of “moral relativism” (that is, anything-goes-and-ignore-the-consequences) such as the same sex marriage people are doing is creating discussion and critical thinking. The same sex agenda is being exposed for what it is: humanist/atheist social engineering. The result is that the decent people of society are mobilising against it and the more the SSM people push their cause, the more opposition that are creating. They are scared of a plebiscite because they know that they will lose it. The more analysis, the better. For example, is our biological sex determined by nature or nurture?….it’s obviously the former because of our chromosomes. Is our gender different to our sex?….nope!….it’s only the subjective, post-modernist person of the “progressive” gay mindset who thinks that redefining words can somehow change reality. Since when is “progress” always a good thing anyhow? It’s all just tricky word-smithing and targeting the naive young children of our society (without parental approval) because they are easy pickings. Make-believe “medical” reports just facilitate the illusion. That’s right!…..”The Emperor has no clothes”. Sexual orientation other than our biological, chromosome-determined sex is all about choice: we all can choose to be the way we are created (the natural biological reality) or choose to be something different (fluid “whatever-you-feel-like” gender sexuality ) that is contrary to nature – the latter leads to an unhealthy, destructive, mixed up lifestyle. So blaming opponents of the “progressive” fluid sexuality won’t stop the confusion, anxiety, depression (suicide?) of GLBTIQ people…..it’s their chosen lifestyle that causes it. All the health warnings associated with their lifestyle are ignored thereby creating a self-fulfilling prophecy of hurt, destruction…..and possibly death. The current same sex push affects the way we ALL act and talk – ALL society suffers as a result. Trying to redefine words to get the “abnormal” to suddenly become “normal” (and “immorality” to suddenly become “morality”) doesn’t work and it is a form of delusion to even try it. Morality by any other name is still morality and immorality by any other name is still immorality. And by the way, do the same sex marriage advocates allow gay rape?….of course they don’t and so this proves that gay people CAN withhold their sexual urges IF THEY CHOOSE TO. The whole social experiment of hedonising our society and trying to engineer morality using political stunts, herd mentality and shove-it-in-our-face programs (like “unSafe Schools” and “Build Better Relationships” programs), doesn’t change morality. Our children can now be warned of these manipulative manoeuvrings by hedonistic humanists/atheists so that the next generation won’t be so easily fooled as the last.

    It is inevitable now that schools will be polarised into “gay schools” and “non-gay schools” as the “gay schools” shout homophobia at anyone who does not want to be a homosexual (it will be a witch-hunt on all the time to “catch-out” the heterosexual and spew abuse at them just like Bill Shorten did to Cory Bernardi – no one wants to be on the run from the homo hit squad all day long) and the “non-gay schools” who are sick in the gut of having rampant hedonistic humanism/atheism shoved down our throats and so they want to live in peace by teaching their children the 3Rs and decency. The creators of the “Safe School” program obviously didn’t think through how their initiative will cause polarised “gay schools” and “non-gay schools” that will now eventuate – that is the path that we are now heading down. For schools/universities to support such a destructive program like “unSafe Schools”, it drags down their reputations and has me, for one, warning people not to send their children to such institutions –parents will vote with their feet (and their wallets) by not sending children to skewed schools/universities that are only into political activism and not into educating people. Bible-believing Christians are allowed to be persecuted, so there is hardly any “allowed to be yourselves” or “religious freedom” for m. What we are seeing with all this is tricky, hyped, chest-beating, emotive poetry that is the last thing that Australia needs. It’s all just social engineering toward a hedonistic, immoral society based on humanistic ideology.

    • Neil,
      I agree with your comments. Paul Ritchie has published a book called Faith, love and Australia – The conservative case for same-sex marriage. People would class me as conservative, but Paul’s logic and reasoning for a Humanist “Marriage Equality” is total fantasy, and faith and hope in his own belief and value system. The Christian faith and hope in Christ doesn’t encourage and promote the abuse of body parts against their function. Paul’s book is not going to convince Christians to support a Humanist’s “Marriage Equality” because a “One Flesh” union with the blessing of children is irrelevant in this fantasy marriage. Today, The Weekend Australian has shown another side to the story of Australian media culture has become extremely bias, “Western media shuts its eyes to persecution of Christians,” by Greg Sheridan. This article highlights the genocide of Christians in our world today, and most of western media choose to ignore this evil. Greg states, “Christians do not fit into the ready and simplistic ABC heroes and villains categories, so their persecution is effectively ignored.” He discusses the absurdity of Austrailians’ culture’s double standard between the booklet by the Catholic Bishop of Tasmania – “Don’t mess with marriage” which he got into serious trouble with the Anti-discrimination Act and the comments about homosexuality is deserving of death by a senior Islamic imam. Why didn’t the LGBTIAQ lobby-dictators use the Anti-discrimination Act against the senior Islamic imam? The gay lobby-dictators have decided that Muslims are also victims so shouldn’t be criticised, but Christians are part of the oppressor category and therefore must be criticised in all cases. Plus, I loved Bill Leak’s cartoon titled, “The Prime Minister’s New Clothes,” the drawing of a naked Malcolm Turnbull , and him making the comment, “Decided it was time for a makeover, what do you think of the new suit?” If marriage is going to have a complete makeover this is going to be mutton dressed up as lamb.

    • WOW what a load of HARD TALK from a fellow human being that is such an EXPERT on Sexuality and Marriage .
      With a lot of what could be very convincing to the naive amongst “Gods Chosen – Self Appointed “.
      Just because he has confessed that Jesus Christ is Lord in His life we have another moronic idiot who makes some pretty offensive and outrageous claims that I can hear all those that are in the same ” moral campus he belongs to ” cheering him on agreeing with “AMEN BROTHER “.
      When will the Evangelical Sect of our world put down their hatred and most offensive argument that can never stand up in a changing world .
      When will they stop using God as an excuse to proclaim their Intollerance with such impunity for the world and the diversity it holds.
      Neil feels so justified in his argument to downgrade the human natural instinction to “find a mate ” and to know love and feel love in our lives.
      Why does Neil say this comment ” is that any sex-driven relationship (whether homosexual or heterosexual) is doomed from the start because it is a selfish, lust-based relationship that can never survive for long leaving a trail of hurt and destruction in it’s wake. ” .
      Does he not know that branding a relationship where 2 men are a couple is highly naïve and very offensive to claim this kind of relationship is fuelled by sex, I see how he also sais the same goes for those marriages in hetro’s that may be that way.
      Please don’t speak Neil if your opinion happens to be so sad and deluded to believe that love actually doesn’t exists between 2 men or 2 woman as it seems you fail to really understand what you are on about.
      it is simple mate without going through all this rhetoric and discussion that really resolves nothing and only causes a greater division between people at large.

      To me the ANSER to your argument and mine which are very different is to leave this whole pointless debate with God Himself.
      I am from a strong Pentecostal and evangelical background, and had no choice as a child what faith or religion i should follow it was decided for me, and this in itself is a whole other issue about those rights of protecting children at large, while children are children i believe they have the right to be taught about all different faiths and as they grow into adulthood also need to feel perfectly at free will to decide for themselves which faith if any they too want to follow and not be outcast by insane religious and intollorent parents who have decided such divisive decisions on their adult child’s life.
      Can we at least recognise that entering into these type of discussion where there is no answer and there can be no real resolve ever, to just leave it at the feet of our Maker and allow Him to be the judge of all men , allow Him to determine who is who and what is what without the interference of man kind’s intolerable behaviour.
      I am today an adult , i am living my life away from that upbringing my mother believed was so right for me and my siblings, i do not accept the guilt trip she had me travelling and the emotional turmoil her Pentecostal beliefs that she used as a weapon against me while my whole body screamed out loud an in real pain that i was not like those around me and that there was something very different to me than my peers in the Church I belonged too.

      I only found my freedom to live again when I confronted my Heavenly Father who i have a deep and personal relationship still to this day that this is an issue that should and can only be resolved when i leave it with Him and not rely on man , ie yourself to provide me with something we as humans have still not got to grips with and will continue to fail each other time and time again.

      I do feel even now writing this of what a waste of my personal energy entering into dialogue with such an expert as you seem to be on the issue .
      I rest my case.
      And my case sits with my Heavenly Father and in this way there is no more slander and taking sides, there is no reason to cause even greater division and to continue to make it your personal fight and battle is doomed to fail and have a serious impact on your own personal relationship with your Maker and has the potential to breed even more hate than what we live with today.

      if you cannot sit quietly and return to the cause that you feel is a worthy one and you continue to refer to the Bible as giving us all the answers then i would ask you to sit and ponder the first chapter of genesis and ask yourself where the human race came from.
      And how at the time of Noah and the world was flooded and no life remained how did the world re populate , the only answer you will be able to come up with really goes against every grain of the evangelical belief that Incest in the family is acceptable.
      So i do feel like really important issues of life and its meaning need to be taken from the hands of man who is fraught with sin in every way and left with the Maker , who understands everything about each of us and even knows every about every grain of hair we have on our heads.
      His eye is on the Sparrow and I know he watches over me.
      No matter what others may think and believe .

      Its not important and will never be when it comes down to who has the right to love who and the question of what marriage means is something that really is not worth hating and throwing stones at each other about.
      With respect Phil

      • M

        Hi Phil
        With you in all of this.
        I try to tell myself they know not what they do.
        But i am not convinced.
        Blessings and peace from a sister in Christ

      • Phil,
        I don’t understand if your a Christian or not because you don’t make it clear in your comments. Christians understand the Humanist’s “Marriage Equality” has nothing to do with God nor the Christian church. It is man’s imagination of a fantasy marriage like Disneyland is a fantasy world. The government has to define a Humanist’s “Marriage Equality” and the law defines family, but this has no underlying belief so the next generation will refuse the government controlling their marriages and families. I understand that love does exist between 2 girls/women, but I understand this is different to a “one flesh” union “love” that creates a new-life child/children as I have experienced both of these different types of relationships. When my girlfriend touch me as we slept together (a sexual union with a non-sexual body part) this is called sexual assault as I was unable to consent to sexual activities because I was only 9 yrs old. Most homosexuals have admitted to experiencing homosexuality as a child which does indicate they may have also experienced sexual assault like myself. If homosexuals are unable to control their sexual desires, feelings, lusts and passion does this mean our society has to accept gay assault/rape/harassment?

        The Bible is extremely clear that God created a man and woman to be united in “one flesh” union for the purpose of filling the earth with people. The bible never stated, “man and man” or “woman and woman” to become “one flesh” because this goes against nature. God not only didn’t bless sexual activities with children, but it has been cursed with significant harmful health and relationship problems. Health science shows evidence when body parts are used against their function then this is called abuse. Neil has an extremely strong argument against changing the meaning of marriage for a nation of married couples, and he never claimed to be an expert or “God.” However, you detailed your past religious experiences which shows your parents gave you a real choice about Christianity. I tell my children that I have made them all do swimming lessons against their free will because then they have a real choice about whether they choose to enter a race or not. When you have never learnt to swim the only choice is not to swim in a race because it is impossible. There are people whom believe children should decide their faith for themselves as adults. I find this belief ridiculous because parents don’t allow our children to decide if they will learn to read on not. Parents understand if a child is going to play a musical instrument as an adult that it is best to start learning as a child. When Christian parents have a personal faith in Christ they desire for their own children to experience Jesus Christ for themselves as a child.

        Phil, it is obvious from your comments you’ve had your feelings have been hurt in the past. There is a time when we have all failed and our feelings have been hurt. The truth that 2+2 = 4, but somehow we got 5. Neil was telling the truth about marriage as it has been from the beginning of time and in all cultures like 2+2=4. Phil your understanding of marriage has never existed in Australia, and this type of fantasy marriage is only new to the western world like the 2+2=5, but there are people whom will never believe this to be a real marriage like they’re unable to believe 2+2=5. You can kick and scream all you like even if this makes you look like a spoilt adult, but Christians can identify their marriages with the original meaning of marriage as “one flesh” union. What does it mean for gays and lesbians go around claiming to be wife and wife or husband and husband? Christians don’t understand this type of relationship as it doesn’t make any sense. It has never been mentioned in the Bible and there is no cultural significance to this type of relationship. Is the devil playing games with certain mind-sets or making a total joke out of marriage?

        Neil has been courageous to stand-up for the truth about God’s real marriage because the LGBTIAQ lobby-dictators don’t have any idea about the historical, natural practice of marriage. The Humanist’s “Marriage Equality” is extremely unlikely to get the numbers in a plebiscite because their argument of “commitment” and “love” can’t stop the legal “open marriages” from also getting “marriage equality.” However, most Australians don’t identify their marriage as an “open marriage.” Therefore, the slippery slope argument is extremely real because it will only be a matter of time before the majority of marriages identify with an “open marriages,” then the government will have to give “marriage equality” to multiple spouses, short-term marriage contracts, etc. When gender is made irrelevant in marriages, then there isn’t any reason against marrying a machine, robotic sex doll, animal etc . The LGBTIAQ lobby-dictators are lying like the Nazis were in Germany, and I definitely don’t trust any news or research these dictators are involved in. Parents and their children only have had to experience the Safe (dangerous) school coalition program which they gave no consent and was full of deception and lies as it had nothing to do with an “anti-bullying program” for all students.

  5. AR

    Blokes don’t marry blokes.

    • AR,
      Thanks for explaining the difference between “Blokes” and “Gays.”

  6. No one ever brings up the elephant in the room on this debate…. the elephant being teenagers. Any parent knows how difficult this age bracket can be, imagine the angry teens screaming obscenities at the same sex marriage Dads/Mums, ” why the F#$% did you selfish bastards/Bitches not give me a chance to a father and a mother like all the other kids. And who are we kidding these kids are not going to be tormented at school by other kids. High school kids can be vicious, you just have to have red curly hair and glasses and you cop an ear full. Its hard enough bringing teenagers up this day and age in a relatively normal upbringing. There is already broken homes, single parents and some want to legalise another mismatch. Selfish, selfish!! Selfish!!! Then you will get the advocates saying but we love our child and we want the best upbringing possible, what a load of shit! if that was the case then you would allow children to be brought up by there biological parents. Can you imagine the child when the same sex couple no longer live together, what a mess that would be, or the child is not what the ordered for ( many more scenario’s) DOCs would have to open up a whole new department for this group…Please think of the child first.

    The scary part is no matter how hard they force to be normal they will never be able to have a biological child between them self’s and never know what this feels like.

  7. Good posts.
    Gay marriage is not a real marriage, but an attempt to redefine and enforce a new legal, socially accepted marriage.

    As Janine said, mutton dressed as lamb. – That’s a good metaphor.

    We all know (including the pro lobby), that it is not a real marriage.

  8. Ash

    Here is an interesting article from the US on the increasing effects of this normalisation of homosexuality:

    https://www.lifesitenews.com/opinion/new-transgender-bathroom-law-signed-by-gop-governor-already-changing-life-i

    It is negative for society and we need to stand up for what is right for us and our children.

  9. I very much appreciate the views that have been put forward and feel that, to say at this point in time SSM will not affect anyone, is grossly premature. Elsewhere, we are already seeing the legal minefield of this change and infringements on people of faith and others to act according to their conscience – and should we not look to their experience? It would seem the intelligent thing to do. But to properly assess this fundamental alteration to the structure of society, we need to look at the long term effects, the implications of which are deeply troubling. Australia is in a unique position to watch and see what happens over time, without embroiling itself in lawful SSM. People who don’t agree with SSM do not deserve to be called names like homophobic or hateful or bigoted. I don’t hate people of divergent sexual orientation, I would like to see them happy. But it can’t be at the cost of the social order that underlies our very existence. That would eventually make all of us very unhappy. Gender is an inescapable part of life and won’t be subdued. We wear clothing typical of one sex or the other. Our sporting events are distinguished according to one sex or the other. We don’t see men competing against women in the Olympics, women being asked to lift loads designed for male strength, or men falling pregnant and giving birth. So to suggest that human sexual relationships can simply do away with identification with one sex or the other, would be to suggest a state of being other than human – and that’s something we can’t change. We need to hold our nerve, and have patience. We need to learn from the long-term experience of countries that have adopted SSM.

  10. […] Ashers Bakery case has been highlighted regularly by the Australian Christian Lobby and the Australian Marriage Forum as an example of why Australia should remove anti-discrimination laws during any debate leading up […]

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