Public Meeting on Marriage and Family

marriage_family_brisbane_toowoombaYou are invited to hear two expert speakers - Dr David van Gend and Dr Jennifer Roback Morse.

They'll be discussing Same Sex 'Marriage' - Its impact on children, family & freedom.

Monday 16th May, 7pm - The Village Avenue Community Church - 1 Village Avenue, Coopers Plains

Tuesday 17th May, 7pm - South Toowoomba Baptist Church - 279 Geddes Street, Toowoomba.

Admission is free at both events.

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51 Responses

  1. It should be an excellent meeting. I only wish I could attend (but I live in NSW).

    • AJ

      Hi Leighton, good news! David van Gend and Jennifer Roback Morse is speaking at the Future Families Forum in Sydney – 6.30pm Saturday 21st May – Greek Orthodox Parish & Community of “All Saints”
      Cnr Isabel and Cecilia Streets, Belmore.

      • Will the event be recorded?

        • AJ

          We’ll let you know, Nick.

          • Thank you.

    • I also live in Sydney

  2. Nothing could convince me that this ‘lifestyle’ is acceptable in any way, shape or form.

    The anus is not designed to have a penis inserted and sperm deposited into it. The anus is for removing waste from the body. It is the final stage of the digestive process and has no part in reproduction. Therefore inserting a penis and depositing sperm into an anus is plain and simply against it’s natural function. The role of the penis in nature is to insert sperm into the vagina of a female of the same species in order to reproduce. This is impossible when the penis is inserted into the anus. Faeces are removed by the anus and sperm cannot fertilise faeces. It is also worth noting that the walls of the bowel can also be severely damaged due to such unnatural activity and those who engage in such a practise must take time and care to even make such penetration possible.

    When it comes to the connected ‘transgender’ movement infecting society Today, there is also no logical or rational leg to stand on when defending it as gender is decided by chromosomes and the physical signposts one is born with, not by ‘feelings’. A Human is born either male or female only. There are rare occurrences where a birth defect causes a second set of genitalia or deformed genitalia to exist, but this is not a normal occurrence, it is a birth defect akin to being born with 11 toes or your twin protruding from the side of your body… Things to be avoided at all costs.
    To say that you ‘feel’ you are actually the opposite sex trapped in the wrong body is to denounce the science behind gender and denounce reality. To ‘feel’ that you are in fact the opposite sex to what you physically show is to accept that you must have a gendered ‘soul/spirit’ that is separate from your biology, and to accept the existence of the soul/spirit is to accept the existence of God, and the only God that any evidence supports as actually existing is the Judeo-Christian God. But to accept His existence is to accept that the soul/spirit is not actually gendered and that pumping yourself with drugs and going under the knife to mutilate your body for the sole purpose of sexuality is immoral.
    Gender dysphoria can only be a mental illness as the feeling of being the opposite gender simply does not match reality, it is therefore a delusion and must be treated and wiped out, never accepted and propagated. One must remember that the chemistry and composition of the brain also defines the fact some people believe they are a teapot or Jesus Christ, and that they get locked away and treated… But of course, what medical scientist is going to invoke the wrath of the LGBT army and lose all his funding and future by admitting these people are nothing more than seriously mentally damaged and/or depraved?

    A gender dysphoric sufferer undergoing a genital-swap mutilation is like a schizophrenic marrying the voices in his head.

    Some argue that since homosexuality has been recorded in other species, that it is therefore perfectly natural. This is simply false. Any homosexual act recorded in other species was the result of young animals practising skills for the future, dominance or simple mindlessness. No animal is gay. Any animals that have mounted the same sex will just as quickly mount the opposite sex too. Take a common Dog for example.
    In any case, animals have also been observed eating their own young, eating their own faeces and killing and raping for sport. To justify your actions by using animals is to lower yourself to something less than Human, it is sick and twisted.
    In Humans, any urge to perform a homosexual act can only be born from curiosity, mental illness from the polluted natural or sociological environment the individual is raised in, the experiences they live through and the personal choices of the ones performing the acts. Many people after serious break-ups go on to ‘try’ homosexuality. And many homosexuals have gone on to abandon it and adopt a straight life-style too. In fact, the very existence of ‘bi-sexuality’ confirms that it is more often than not a personal choice.

    An even weaker argument that homosexuals/sodomites use is to claim that Jesus Christ makes no mention of homosexuality/sodomy in the New Testament, therefore He must not have a problem with it. Jesus Christ may not have spoken directly of homosexuality in the New Testament, but he also didn’t speak directly of bestiality either. It was common knowledge that these acts are sinful. Not to forget that Jesus Christ claimed to be the very same God who demanded that sodomy be punished by death!

    When all is said and done, some males simply like other males and some females simply like other females… But some people also like to lie, steal, kill and rape…

    • No. Dolphins are known to have gay relationships for 17 years, while their straight relationships are temporary. (Dolphins are so cute.) Similarly, penguins and lions have been observed exclusively mating with their own sex, and completely ignoring the other sex.

      Pointing to gay animals is to refute the argument that it is unnatural, not immoral.

      Bisexuals don’t choose their sexual orientation. It’s just that because we could theoretically choose anyone as a partner, doesn’t make it a choice. Our attraction, which gives rise to the possibility of choosing anyone, is not a choice.

      Also, the AMF published a comment calling for gay people to be executed. Just thought I’d make that clear.

      • AJ

        Nick, are you referring to Janine’s comment about her German relative who was executed for war crimes? This is a statement of historical fact and certainly gives no impression of condoning any such action toward gay people. Quite the opposite. It shows how dramatically people’s views of right and wrong can change.

        • No, I’m referring to Benjamin who said this, in the comment right above my comment:

          “The only God that any evidence supports as actually existing is the Judeo-Christian God.


          An even weaker argument that homosexuals/sodomites use is to claim that Jesus Christ makes no mention of homosexuality/sodomy in the New Testament, therefore He must not have a problem with it. Jesus Christ may not have spoken directly of homosexuality in the New Testament, but he also didn’t speak directly of bestiality either. It was common knowledge that these acts are sinful. Not to forget that Jesus Christ claimed to be the very same God who demanded that sodomy be punished by death!”

          • AJ

            Okay, thanks for pointing it out, Nick. Wading through the mountains of text in this thread, that line was missed. Bringing up this Old Testament reference out of context isn’t constructive to the debate and the offending comment has been removed. We do our best to ensure both sides of the debate are conducting themselves respectfully and any oversight in this regard is certainly not intentional.

          • Thank you.

    • Benjamin . S,
      Unfortunately, Australian’s don’t understand the meaning of depravity. The Australian government have avoided in making a logical and rational argument for a legal, man-made “open marriage” between any 2 people for the purpose of including same-sex couples. This law will be based on autonomy and consent so there won’t be any argument against the throuples (3 people in love with each other), multiple partners, monogamish relationships (sexual relationships outside of marriage) and the wed lease (marriage contract of 5yrs, 10yrs etc). Australians understand the meaning of a legal “open marriage,” but most married couples don’t identify their marriage with it. When I was a child/teenager I believed I was allergic to egg because it made me sick. I couldn’t touch it or smell it etc. However, I could eat cakes, biscuits etc with egg in it. It wasn’t until I had my son that I got over my egg phobia as I wanted to cook him an egg. The mind is extremely powerful when it comes to sexual thoughts, beliefs, feelings, emotions, desires, lusts and passions. We can feel like we can have no control over our desire for a person, but we face rejection and move on.

      Same-sex couples can’t claim they have no choice to same-sex attraction. I had both males and females attracted to me because I was beautiful and athletic (bisexual). I had to make a choice based on my moral beliefs, laws of nature/biology, culture, family history and social science. I got over my boy problem and dislike of men after I finished high school. I had homosexual experiences with girls at school, and when we slept together a girlfriend touch me (a sexual organ with a non-sexual organ), and since I was a child, I couldn’t consent so this is called “sexual assault.” I had transgender experience because I was an unplanned pregnancy. My parents wanted a boy for the farm, and only chose boy names prior to my birth. My mother would constantly tell me I was just like my father, and I felt like a boy trapped in a girl’s body. I went through a stage of wearing boys clothes in high school (queer), and not wanting the boys to be attracted to me (asexual). I blamed all these weird experiences on the immoral environment I was nurtured and matured into an adult. I grew up with a 14yr old girl at school who got pregnant to her stepfather (incest-teenage pregnancy) and she went on to have 12 children to 5 partners, and all their housing and living cost paid for by the Australian taxpayer as she never worked outside the home. My cousin married her teacher, and this relationship started in high school (pedophilia). Married teachers had sexual relationships with other married teachers (adultery). I witnessed a group rape when I was 7-8yrs old in the school playground, and my girlfriend told me she was raped. The principals had men magazines (pornography) which the boys passed around the school and the boys showed the girls which I witnessed. The town bike was the prostitute in town. Boys showed me their genitals, and I saw naked men in the Footy shed. There were house parties – fornication (pre-marital sex). I experienced child-on-child sexual abuse/assault/harassment throughout my primary and high school years. The police got involved once when a teacher had inappropriate relationships with female students and a local doctor was involved, and there was family violence. I witnessed a young woman get a serious throat infection after giving a guy a “blow job.” I can’t imagine parents wanting their children/teenagers to have my experience. I don’t live anywhere near this community. I now understand the reason I had suicidal thoughts because I really wanted to escape the “hell on earth” environment I was living in. Nobody can understand what it would be like to go to school everyday with a boy that believed he owned your body, and this goes on for the whole of primary school and high school. There were days that boys made me so sick that I couldn’t get out of bed and go to school. My mind was so twisted that I could have killed him, and I wouldn’t have cared about going to prison as I would have felt free from him. Governments can believe these
      mind-sets of LGBTIAQ is wonderful for the diversity to Australian society, but I don’t believe they understand the significant harmful health and relationship problems of the new mind-set. I have decided to be the W in the LGBTIAQW meaning I am weird sexuality to speak against the homosexual, transgender, bisexual, asexual and queer life-style, especially against the fantasy of “same-sex marriage.” I understand their mind-set is twisted into this reality, but it is caused by abuse or exposure to these weird ideas. I have witnessed young children eating dirt, and parents say, “A little bit of dirt want kill you.” However, the spores in dirt can cause Atypical TB requiring a long cause of anti-biotic treatment and surgery and can lead to death.

  3. jt

    It perplexes me that you would post these comments but you wouldn’t post my previous comments because I made a “personal attack” by calling someone ridiculous in response to what they said. Some of these comments here have nothing to do with marriage, just outright hate against homosexuality. I was under the impression that AMF had no issue with ‘homosexual adult friendships’. Why would you post this? I’m glad you do however because I think it reveals weakness.

    Janine, I have nothing against you and I admire that you’re willing to share all of these deeply personal experiences for your cause but based on some of things you’ve said in this post and others, it makes me think you could potentially have bit of a narcissistic personality (Just an observation – no attack of offence intended) It’s somewhat endearing that you think you can relate to every single letter of the acronyms that YOU create. However I find your opinions on some of these identities and the subsequent acts they may engage in are not very enlightened.

    Regardless of how true all of these experiences are, it doesn’t actually mean anything and it’s not really relevant. Your individual experiences are not the same as everybody else. Quite frankly, just because you think all boys and girls were attracted to you because you were so beautiful and “athletic” doesn’t make you more knowledgeable on the subject of bi sexuality nor does it make your opinions correct. Likewise your fashion choices when you were in high school don’t make your opinions on queer culture any more valid.

    I’m truly sorry if all these negative things occurred to you as an adolescent but please remember that not everyone identifies as one of these identities associating it with negative experience. Further, a lot of the things you say don’t even make any sense and are very off kilter, especially when it comes to sexuality and a lot of the things you’ve said in regards to HIV and AIDS. And as you claim you’re a nurse and work in the medical industry, this genuinely concerns me. I don’t believe you should use your profession and position in society to push your ideals especially when they aren’t even shared among the general medical community.

    You and a lot of other posters on here have a utopian vision of what marriage is and you reduce it down to the union of a penis and a vagina. Sex is a definite component of marriage but it’s not the only component. Likewise, sexual reproduction is a component of human sexuality but it’s also not the only component. It really has nothing to do with marriage laws but it seems to come up a fair bit so I’ll humour this and propose that there is a difference between sexual reproduction, sexual expression, sexual intercourse and of course marriage. You don’t need to be married to sexually reproduce, or express yourself sexually or have sexual intercourse. You can have sexual intercourse without sexual reproduction. The reality is the majority of time when two consenting adults engage in sexual activity hetero or homo no sexual reproduction occurs, and they know it’s not going to occur nor do they wish it to occur. Because sex has never been just about making babies, marriage has never been just about making a baby either.

    As for what makes a sexual act – you can’t possibly propose that sexual intercourse only exclusively uses a penis and a vagina with not even a thought (mind) or another non sexual organs coming into play (hand), how would one get aroused and physically connect the two. Non sexual organs like hands and mouths play a huge role in sexual intercourse. I would find it quite bizarre if two people didn’t even think about it and just joined their genitals together with no kissing or touch for quick penetration and hope it makes a baby. But if that’s how you express yourself sexually Janine then good on you, who am I to judge? I wouldn’t say it’s wrong and you shouldn’t express yourself like that, I might suggest you were missing out but I wouldn’t really care. I don’t think you will get very far trying to convince people that this is what marriage is and should be.

    Benjamin – homosexuality is not defined or limited by anal sex, it’s a very unintelligent and flawed observation and not at all relevant to marriage laws or the forum that AMF proclaims to foster. It’s extremely naive to believe that that’s all a homosexual is and does. There are plenty of gay men in gay relationships that don’t practice anal sex, they still engage in sexual activity with each other – it doesn’t make them any less homosexual. Furthermore there are plenty of consenting heterosexual couples who enjoy and engage in anal sex.

    It’s just sexual expression isn’t it, sexual expression is natural, if it’s between two consenting adults then what’s the issue? What does it have to do with you, no one is trying to convince you, homosexuals don’t seek your validation, don’t worry about it…

    The change in marriage laws aren’t actually going to change any of this – why bring it up? And why do you need to reduce marriage to a penis and a vagina when it so clearly represents so much more?

    It takes more than genitals to make a marriage.

    • JT,
      Guys like you think that they can tell women what they are allowed to say on the topic of marriage, and then be rude enough to attack me personally by labelling me. I understand that you might want marriage to mean “love is love,” romantic relationship,” and a fantasy virtual “open marriage.” However, marriage is a life-long commitment to the behavioural practice of sexual intercourse – “one flesh” – (mind-body-soul) between one man and one woman, excluding all others for the benefit of children. This is a fundamental practice since the beginning of time and in all cultures as it is the only way to have biological children. Currently marriage has a meaning and a purpose for a nation of married couples. The reason I posted my personal experience is to demonstrate not all sexual relationships are good and healthy, and children/teenagers are affected by these experiences including LGBTIAQ mind-sets for a life-time. If you don’t believe I should be giving my personal experiences of LGBTIAQ mind-set, then I hope you are stopping all those LGBTIAQ people who are using their personal stories to try and change people’s minds about marriage. JT you have a certain mind-set about what marriage should mean for you as an individual, and you believe your the one Right about this issue, and anyone who doesn’t agree with your mind-set is WRONG, and this is what the NAZI dictators mind-set was in Germany. I am not living in a Bubble about HIV/AIDS as you should read the history of the epidemic in Australia in 1984 when 3 babies died in Brisbane because of infected blood transfusions. Homosexuals were warned by health authorities not to give blood but refused. The father of one of the babies whom died was extremely angry about homosexuality, and wanted the young man to suicide. I am a healthcare professional so I understand that diseases are becoming drug-resistant. The Guardian reported 40 000 people are dying across Europe and US per year because the diseases aren’t responding to drugs. The Guardian reported, “Doctors warn the Super-Gonnorrhoea is spreading across Britain,” as there is no drugs available so this leads to infertility, septicaemia and death. So you don’t believe that I have a right as a healthcare professional have a responsibility to educate the community about health issues. Are you a LGBTIAQ lobby-dictator to decide what health information is allowed? You have highlighted the problem Australians will experience if they allow the LGBTIAQ lobby-dictators to rise to power and rule over our government and communities including: education, health and welfare services, legal services, sporting groups, churches, families, parents and individuals. The LGBTIAQ lobby-dictators will be forcing health professionals to only provide information which agrees with their mind-set. The specialist-urologist in Boston lost his job, not because he harmed a patient, but because he didn’t believe in Gay pride and homosexual behaviours. So the LGBTIAQ lobby-dictators want to suppress medicine and science which hold truth to sexual behaviours and practices.

      Your thoughts on sexual intercourse is “vanilla sex,” and you believe you don’t need marriage to have a sexual relationship. Your mind-set doesn’t believe couples shouldn’t provide a loving, stable family for children to be nurtured and matured to adults. The history of marriages in Australia show evidence that men and women have got married for this meaning and purpose. Your reasoning on sexuality is exactly the reason same-sex couples should have nothing to do with marriage as they make marriage meaningless and pointless. The couple at the comedy company whom had same-sex partners made a total mockery of marriage so they prove “open marriages” are meaningless and pointless. Your mind-set which believes sexual intercourse isn’t about a penis and a vagina is against scientific logic and reasoning. JT, you state marriage is so much more than WHAT????? Australians haven’t heard one logical and rational argument that LGBTIAQ lobby-dictators have explained the meaning and purpose of marriage. What we have heard is that marriage isn’t about one man and one woman, marriage isn’t about sexual intercourse and children. The government no-fault divorce laws mean that it isn’t life-long. The government isn’t into giving public recognition to “Romantic love relationships” or “friendship relationships.” Therefore, my culture, religion and family history don’t require my family to identify our religious marriage with a legal, man-made “open marriage” between any 2 people for the purpose of including same-sex couples. JT, I don’t care what sort of sexual behaviours you practice in the privacy of your own home, but keep them there because my children don’t need to be exposed to them in their classroom. Health educators need to provide scientific truth about sexual activities and the harmful health and relationship problems these cause our society. The LGBTIAQ lobby-dictators have no right to make everyone pretend sexual activities are the same as sexual intercourse to be called marriage. Australians understand the meaning of an open marriage, but the majority of married couples don’t identify their own marriage with the practice. JT, your into the Marriage Act exchanging true marriage for an “open marriage” between any 2 people. However, don’t be surprised when the majority don’t identify their marriage as being an “open marriage” because it’s meaningless and pointless. The younger generation in Australia aren’t identifying with the “love is love” and disney’s “romantic” relationship. I am surprised you have a total lack of knowledge about the Hook-Up culture which sn’t into love, romance and intimacy. They are into the biological sexual intercourse. You need to get on the right side of history for the reason the government is into the marriage business. They can’t afford for the young generation to not believe in monogamy, life-long commitment between man-woman, otherwise they will have a serious harmful health and relationship problems which the country won’t be able to afford to treat. The Guarian recently reported that social scientist believe humans became monogamous because of the spread of STDs. JT, you can stay ignorant of these health and relationship issues if you want, but healthcare professionals need to be whistle-blowers about the truth. Healthcare professionals are greatly concerned about the spread of the Zika virus which has no vaccination, and healthcare professionals are advising athletes the ways to minimise the spread of this new STD virus to other countries when they return home. Your whole comments above were based on yourself, and with no concern to a nation of married people. Therefore, the LGBTIAQ lobby-dictators power and rule should only exist over their own people because the majority of Australians don’t want their mind-set or their way of life or their poor mental and physical health. A small group of healthcare professional whom support LGBTIAQ lobby-dictators don’t speak for the majority of healthcare professionals whom don’t identify their sexual behaviours or lifestyle with the LGBTIAQ- lobby dictators mind-set. I have no problem being a whistle-blower as I have past experiences of stopping some illegal practices from continuing in hospitals. With over 23yrs experience as a healthcare professional in critical care I definitely aren’t scared of you, nor your mind-set. You can believe what you like, but your LGBTIAQ mind-set is a very small minority so your autonomy ends when it infringes on the majority mind-set that doesn’t identify their marriage as an “open marriage.” What do Australians call “same-sex marriages”? The answer: legal, man-made “OPEN MARRIAGE” between any 2 people. This will never last because the framework is meaningless and pointless, but at lease Australians will understand their reason for refusing to be involved in the practice.

      • JT

        Janine, first off you don’t know my gender and nothing I’ve said would indicate that I am a man telling a woman what they’re allowed to say. Going by what you’ve said in your previous post I think you may still have some issues against men, and perhaps some counciling would help you find peace with that.

        I’m very sorry if you took offence, I was quite careful to not label you personally but rather the things that you say. And I didn’t mean any offence, just wanted to highlight the way things come across.

        It’s very hard to digest what you say because it’s not very well written and you tend to jump all over the place and take things out of context a lot. Some things are just not true. But you also tend to catastrophise issues and take ideas to the extreme which don’t really have anything to do with marriage in the first place, or anything anyone’s said for that matter.

        Perhaps if you take more time or got someone to help you write your posts your points would be clearer and we could have a better debate. There’s quite a bit of contradiction and irony, which is not helping your cause.

        A lot of the medical “facts” you throw out there are actually just media hype and you don’t cite your sources or provide enough context for them to be relevant.

        I never said you shouldn’t be educating the public about health issues just that you shouldn’t be using your profession to push your marriage idealism, it’s not a medical issue. It is quite a worry what you might be teaching the public though, I hope you keep your personal views and opinions seperate from medical facts and you don’t discriminate.

        You said “[you] don’t care what sort of sexual behaviours [I] practice in the privacy of [my] own home, but keep them there because [your] children don’t need to be exposed to them in the classroom” Janine, I didn’t mention anything about my sexuality or my sexual activities, because it’s not relevant, there is no evidence for you to make these assumptions.

        And lastly, comparing the ideas I put forward to Nazi Germany is really ignorant and very insensitive to survivors and everyone affected by that horrific chapter of history. And I hope anyone reading what you wrote can put it down to your lack of academia and not be offended by it. I don’t really feel that comment merits a response at all and no comparassions can be made between the holocoust and marriage equality but what I will say is that ideas like the nazi regime was exclusive and tried to uphold an idealist vision. Marriage equality seeks to be inclusive and break down idealism that no longer fits in society.

        And just for your information Janine, homosexuals were among the worst treated and affected by the holocoust and even survivors were kept imprissoned after and received no recognition for the horrific treatment they endured until decades later. So it’s particularly offensive that you would even mention this let alone use it against marriage equality. Please educate yourself and get help with your writing and we can have a constructive debate.

        All the best.

        • JT

          And also suggesting that LGBT, or whatever acronym you want to use, are of poor physical and mental health just because of their identities is just false nonsense. You shouldn’t be a practicing health care professional if you think this. You should whistle blow yourself.

          A lot of my friends work in the medical industry and hold a lot higher positions than a nurse and a GP and they identify as gay. They’re very physically healthy and of sound mind. What possesses you to think you have the right to make claims like this?

          What does Zika virus and the risk to athletes have to do with anything? My goodness.

          • JT
            You are the LGBTIAQ lobby-dictator who now thinks you have the power and control to rule over all healthcare professionals, and dictate whom can’t practice if they don’t have the LGBTIAQ mind-set. I don’t believe you have a lot of friends whom work in the medical industry and identify themselves as gay. I have worked for more than 23yrs in a large major teaching hospital and I have worked around many other large major teaching hospitals, and I haven’t come across one person who has come out as ‘gay.’ So your sweeping statements which include: “A lot of my friends…higher position.” Does this mean one or two people???? You are no health professional, and yet you claim you understand more than healthcare professionals, but you don’t understand that the Zika virus is the new STD. You definitely have a LGBTIAQ lobby dictator’s mind-set because you want power and control to rule the meaning and purpose of marriage, but you don’t understand the meaning nor purpose marriage has for a nation of married couples. It is so frustrating because you’re not educated enough to understand the behaviours and practices between an individual can be very different to a nation of married couples. Please do a Masters of Health, then you might bring some logical and rational argument to this forum based on scientific facts. At the moment I am a “whistleblower” on you because you claim your the expert on health because you have observed your “gay” friends health as they work in the medical industry. I suggest you review the shorten life-span of homosexuals and investigate the sexual life-style of homosexuals as this may start to inform you about the truth about homosexuality. You consistently refer to individuals, please start dealing with groups of people or a nation of people. For example, a person can play their loud music in their own private bedroom, but they can’t do this same behaviour in a room of 4 patients. Please think about your comments before you add another comment to this forum as it is making you sound extremely uneducated. If you can’t make a rational and logical argument for a man-made “open marriage” between any 2 people for the purpose of including same-sex couples, then please make no more personal attacks on people. The Australian government has demanded Australians not to tolerate family violence, but the way you attack people is a form of violence so please stop it. YOU DON’T HAVE THE POWER OR CONTROL TO RULE OVER PEOPLE. YOU DON’T DECIDE WHAT IS RIGHT OR WRONG. PLEASE MAKE A LOGICAL AND RATIONAL ARGUMENT OR DON’T SAY ANYTHING AT ALL.

        • JT

          It is really you that needs help with your communication as you are such a LGBTIAQ- lobby dictator, now you dictate for people to seek medical help. It is obvious that you don’t understand any of Germany’s history, and I can make comments about it because this is where my forefathers came from. You don’t have the power or control to rule people in what is RIGHT and WRONG. It is obvious from your comments that your not well educated as you make sweeping statements such as “plenty of gays don’t practice anal sex.” Educated people don’t make this types of statement as you make out your an expert, and you’re not even a health professional. I have a problem with men like you with your LGBTIAQ mind-set. It is impossible to imagine you as a female from the detail of anal sex which the majority of women including lesbians don’t want anything to do with this behaviour. It is hard to digest what you’ve written because it doesn’t make any sense to any married couples. You have provided no facts for the reason a nation of couples have got married. Maybe someone should help you with your writing so you can clearly explain a logical and rational argument for a nation of married couples as this is what the Marriage Act is all about, and not your own personal fantasy marriage. So are you going to prove to me that the Guardian didn’t report, “Doctors warn the Super-Gonorrhoea is spreading across Britain” or that health authorities are concern about the spread of the Zika virus? I don’t trust you with your statement about “plenty of gay men don’t practice anal sexual activity” or “plenty of heterosexuals practice anal sexual activity.” It is obvious to even blind Freddy that you’re not telling the truth about these sexual health facts. Public health report in local newspapers and this isn’t “media hype,” because they need to warn everyone about STDs, cancers, HIV/AIDS epidemics etc. However, the LGBTIAQ-lobby dictators will ignore public health warnings. Homosexuals refused to obey health authorities in the Australian AIDS epidemic in 1984 and donated blood, and they refused to practice safe-sex with AIDS/HIV partners and now the taxpayers are paying for the PReP trial. Do you think Daniel Andrews wasn’t reporting the truth about the PReP trial in the Age?

          JT, marriage is a public, life-long commitment to the behavioural practice of sexual union “one flesh” (mind-body-soul) between one man and one woman, excluding all others for the benefit of children. What is marriage idealism??????? Have you researched all the facts about marriage? You would have found since the beginning of time and in all cultures marriage has had three components
          1. Marriage is a sexual union between one man and one woman
          2. Marriage is a life-time commitment
          3. Marriage is monogamous
          4. Marriage is for the benefit of children to be nurtured and matured to adulthood.

          Marriage has been influenced by culture such as church weddings, but this isn’t the fundamental reason for people deciding to get married. Marriage isn’t based on love, romance or intimacy as the government aren’t interested in romantic relationship or friendships.

          The LGBTIAQ lobby dictators want to attack the individuals who are married. Their mind-set is unable to focus on an argument for a legal, man-man “open marriage” between any 2 people for the purpose of including same-sex couples. This is based on autonomy and consent. You need to stop attacking the individual whom you disagree with, and start being intelligent to make a rational and logical scientific argument for “open marriage.” The Labor government spent millions of dollars changing 85 laws, so same-sex couples have equality with the law as they’re treated the same as defacto couples whom are treated the same as married couples. Please don’t make out marriage will somehow make a same-sex relationship legitimate. I don’t have my legal marriage certificate, but people treat my marriage as legitimate. There is no point arguing for “same-sex marriage” as your not interested in being treated separately from married people in the Marriage Act, but the majority of married people don’t identify their marriage with an “open marriage.” So you don’t have the power or control to rule what other people can say on this site, remember you don’t decide what is RIGHT or WRONG. However, we’re all interested in a logical and rational argument based on scientific facts. So please present your case!!!! If you make one more personal attack on me, you lose the debate because debates aren’t one by attacking a person. Please get help if all you ever do is attack people, this may be an OCD problem you have that needs to be addressed with a psychiatrist, and I am a healthcare professional so it is my job to give you free health advise.

    • Australians should all take a copy of JT’s comments above and passed it around to their friends, work mates and families because he has the mind-set of the LGBTIAQ lobby dictator that want power and control to rule over all married couples in Australia by making the Marriage Act exchange a true marriage for a legal, man-made “open marriage” between any two people for the purpose of including same-sex couples. This will be based on autonomy and consent.

      JT isn’t a psychiatrist, but try’s to diagnose people as “narcissistic personalities” for telling their past or present personal stories of LGBTIAQ mind-set. He is the LGBTIAQ lobby-dictator as he decides which personal stories are RIGHT or WRONG.

      JT isn’t in the healthcare industry, but makes a claim that he understands the information which healthcare professionals share with each other, and believes healthcare professionals are in no position in authority to warn our community about significant harmful health and relationship problems caused by practicing sexual activities such as anal and oral sexual activities, mind sex (pornography), hand sex (masturbation), pretend sexual organ (robotic sex toys, dutch dolls) and chem (drug) sex. There are reports of married couples struggling with the addiction to sexual activities which have created problems with sexual intercourse. The Guardian recently reported of a married man was struggling with his wife only wanting masturbation. He was questioning whether he should to stay in this relationship. I am never going to discuss my sexual union because this is the relationship I exclude from all other people. What do same-sex couples exclude from all other people???????????????????????

      JT makes a comment about “plenty of gay men in gay relationships who don’t practice anal sex.” JT hasn’t read the reports on the practices of gay men because they show evidence that plenty of gay men practice anal sex.

      JT believes marriage isn’t about sexual intercourse between a man’s penis and a woman’s vagina or children. He doesn’t think marriage is about a woman and a man. If my husband didn’t have a penis I would never had married him. The majority of women don’t want a sexless marriage and would get a divorce. The Marriage Act is for a nation of married couple and the only thing we have in common is a sexual union between one man and one woman which we exclude all others for the benefit of children. It is good for the wife and children to know who is the father, and for it not to be a guessing game.

      JT believes marriage doesn’t protect the family as there are other laws. The other laws he is referring to are divorce, IVF, surrogacy and adoption. These laws all protect the children which he can only create a family from. However, the Marriage Act protects one man and one woman whom create their biological children to form a family. JT thinks this is irrelevant to the Marriage Act because he can never have biological children with a wife. JT believes in “equality.” However, there isn’t one part of my sexual union which I want to have equality with 2 men. The majority of girls/women don’t want anal sexual activity to give us an anal fistula, faecal incontinence requiring an anal repair. Women/girls don’t want to put ourselves at a higher risk of pelvic inflammatory disease, infertility and shorten life-span due to mixing anal sexual activity with sexual intercourse. JT claims plenty of heterosexual couples enjoy anal sexual activity, but the statistics don’t support his claim. There are doctors whom are warning in the Age, Guardian, public health and Christian magazine against the practice of anal sexual activity because of the serious, harmful health problems. Public health have required high school students to get vaccinated for HPV because of anal and oral sexual activities which are causing cervical, mouth and anal cancers. JT totally ignores the health warning about these practices even published by LGBTIAQ. JT doesn’t even mention the PReP trial which the Victorian government (taxpayers) are paying for high risk LGBTIAQ people whom don’t have safe-sex with HIV/AIDS partners. Public health authorities want the whole community to practice safe-sex, but the LGBTIAQ people get an exemption because they refuse to obey health authorities regarding safe-sex.

      Marriage has everything to do with a sexual union between one man and one female, excluding all others for the benefit of children because without a sexual union women leave their husbands. Since most divorces are initiated by women they don’t tolerate a sexless, nor unfaithful marriage. Since I have been married for more than 18yrs and with 3 biological children it is obvious that the sexual union between one man and one woman is essential to marriage. There are people like Bill Shorten who has told Australians about his pre-marital sex, first marriage, divorce and re-marriage. He believes his marriage can be identified as a new legal man-made “open marriage” between any 2 people. He might want his descendants to have an “open marriage,” but the majority of Australians don’t identify their marriage as an “open marriage.”

      JT believes in equality, but married couples have already decided that a legal “open marriage” isn’t the same as the majority of married couples whom don’t identify with the practice. Therefore, the majority of married couples don’t want the government to exchange a true marriage with a man-made “open marriage” between any 2 people.

      JT’s comments provides no meaning or purpose to the new legal man-made “open marriage” between any 2 people. Please review all of his comments as they are based on his personal belief or experience, and claims aren’t supported with any scientific evidence.

      JT attacks me personally as a healthcare professional, but the Australian Marriage Forum has been established by a male Dr. There are plenty of medical and nursing organisations around the world that haven’t embraced the LGBTIAQ lobby-dictators mind-set. Public Health in Australia have stated many times that LGBTIAQ people have extremely poor physical and mental heath, and have suicidal thoughts. Marriage isn’t a treatment to cure these serious harmful health and relationship problems.

      JT needs to give a logical and rational argument for an exchange of a true marriage to a man-made “open marriage” between any two people because he already understands same-sex couples have legal equality as 85 laws were changed. However, he is trying to argue that the sexual union between a man and woman is irrelevant in marriage, and so far the only person he is convincing is himself.

      • JT

        Dear Janine,

        You don’t know my gender, you don’t know my sexuality, you don’t know my profession, my qualifications or my level of education. You’ve never met my friends. You’ve also never been inside my head and you don’t know my thoughts and beliefs. Yet (not surprisingly) like everything else, you believe you’re some sort of authority on the topic.

        I’m not an ‘LGBTIAQ lobby dictator’ I’m not sure what that is or why you think that. I haven’t tried to dictate anything, I’ve mostly just attempted to dismantle the fallacies and illogical ideas that have been posted here on this particular page and I’ve done so with logic and fact.

        I haven’t tried to attack you personally, I’ve been quite careful to take conclusions only from what you’ve said. I never diagnosed you as a narcissist, perhaps I shouldn’t have even suggested you demonstrate some of these personality traits. The rage and reactiveness since, speaks volumes, I shouldn’t have poked the bear. But I find it hard to believe that I’m the only one who would humour this idea after reading your posts, which include comments such as “I had both males and females attracted to me because I was beautiful and athletic (bisexual)” That has nothing to do with being bisexual, all it demonstrates is is an inflated sense of self, and because you think you chose the right “moral” decision you think everyone else should make that same decision. You also think you can put things inside (brackets) and attach these to the end of your statements and it somehow makes it true. It doesn’t. It doesn’t even make good literary sense. Narcissism is not considered a mental illness, it’s a personality trait and to some degree we all have these traits, one can even suggest it’s a necessary part of society, so don’t be discouraged by my thoughts, and again not calling you a narcissist, just suggesting you be careful how you deliver things if you don’t wish to be perceived in this way.

        However Being a nurse you do not have the qualifications to diagnose me as OCD, even if I was I don’t see how it would have any relevance. And again this is really disappointing, it’s offensive to people who suffer from mental illness. Trying to use this in a derogatory way in an attempt to insult me is poor tact for anyone but being a nurse for over 23 years (so you keep telling us) you should know better Janine! I tried to put down your comments about Nazi Germany down to your ignorance and lack of education but there’s no excuse for this one! Stick to taking people’s blood pressure and changing bedpans. Really.

        Well done you’re right about one thing… I do only have two personal friends, the rest are friends of friends or people that i’ve known, who are in medicine and whom have highly regarded positions. You’re right, it was a hyperbole (that was wrong of me, you would never exaggerate would you Janine?) But are you actually proposing the two ideas:

        1. That a homosexual cannot hold a high position within their profession? Because some of the most successful people in the contemporary world (and in history) are gay and lesbian. Or are you just trying to suggest there are no gay medical doctors?

        2. Is an exaggerated sense of self extending even further to proclaim that you instinctively know the sexual orientation of everyone you’ve ever worked with within medicine? I am dumbfounded, where have you been practicing?

        “JT makes a comment about “plenty of gay men in gay relationships who don’t practice anal sex.” JT hasn’t read the reports on the practices of gay men because they show evidence that plenty of gay men practice anal sex.” Janine I don’t need to read this abstract report on the practices of gay men that you say, and I quote, “plenty” (not all) to know and factually say that male homosexuality is not defined by anal sex.

        “JT doesn’t even mention the PReP trial…” Janine why would I mention the prep trial? At what point would it have been relevant for me to mention this. What you’ve mentioned about it is completely out of context and misleading and false.

        You just talk about so much nonsense and it’s all so poorly constructed I cannot go through it all and there’s really no point – because I doubt anyone knows what your actual point is. You may be on the same team as AMF and a lot of other posters on here but I get the impression you’re playing way out in the outer fields by yourself. I don’t think you’re helping as much as you think you are.

        But suggesting someone will have a shorter lifespan if they identify as gay or that all gay people have physical and mental issues just because they’re gay. It’s just so wrong. I don’t even consider this discrimination, this is just so far removed from truth and reality. It really is delusional. I don’t know how you could get nursing qualifications or how you are allowed to keep practicing if you think things like this. Janine are you really a currently registered practicing nurse? … For humans?

        Anyone with any sense can see that you’ve just tried to turn all the things I’ve concluded from your posts back on to me. This isn’t intelligent, it’s childish. But I don’t believe you’re deliberately trying to be childish, I believe you’re deeply serious. And unfortunately for you, your subsequent posts have only reinforced some of the conclusions I’ve already made, you probably don’t realise it but you’re just digging yourself deeper. It becomes unfair to you and it’s just nonsense to me, I cannot reason with an unreasonable person. But it’s also not very constructive to the debate at hand, so out of respect to the AMF and others who are trying to engage constructively on this forum I don’t wish to engage with you anymore about this particular topic, unless you can pick up your game.

        I will say that I genuinely admire your passion Janine, but I don’t think you grasp the concept of context. I really recommend, if this is something you wish to continue with, that you try and educate yourself a bit more on how to express your ideas better. And also the vast majority of all of your out of context evidence is what “The Guardian recently posted…” My gosh The Guardian has recently published a lot about sex and sexually transmitted diseases, maybe you should try picking up another publication every now and again. Check the date too, you could just be picking up the same newspaper each week thinking it’s the latest issue.

        • Jt

          I highly doubt that you have a masters degree. I personally don’t think the writing you post on here is even at a high school level and I struggle to believe you are an actual practicing nurse in a hospital.

          What’s in the media is often very subjective and rarely official medical documentation. Yes they write stories about health issues and potential health risks, yes they quote medical professionals but they are still stories written by journalists not medical experts. If you are trying to educate the public in the official capacity that you say you are, you shouldn’t be just relaying information from your weekly paper. You should be (correctly) citing sources from official, recent, medical journals and essays on topics that you specialise in. Otherwise let it be what it really is… Your personal opinions.

          Further, if you really think your qualifications are relevant to this debate (which isn’t medical) you should be willing to state your actual (real) professional position and what institution you work for. If you wouldn’t be comfortable with your institution knowing what your trying to publish in a professional capacity then I don’t think you should be posting opinions pretending to be an expert.

          You said “it is obvious that [I] don’t understand any of Germans history” What exactly is it I don’t understand Janine? Are you now trying to deny the Holocoust, or the persecution of homosexuals?

          This has to stop, stick to the debate on marriage, do not pretend you are some medical expert or that this debate even requires a medical expert. And stop bringing up sensitive and offensive topics that have nothing to do with anything.

          • JT,

            YOU’VE LOST THE DEBATE. I was really hoping that you could make an intelligent argument for a legal, man-made “open marriage” between any 2 people for the purpose of including same-sex couples. However, you exposed the truth about yourself – your a cowards that likes to verbally attack women. You like to play judge and jury on what is RIGHT and WRONG. It is obvious you don’t disapprove of all gays and lesbians telling their personal stories. However, people like myself who have had past LGBTIAQ experiences, and who don’t agree with the change to the Marriage Act, you dictate our personal stories are irrelevant. I’ve told some of my childhood/teenager experiences of LGBTIAQ mind-set, not because I wanted attention, but to warn others of the dangers of being exposed to these sexual activities. My experiences of homosexuality started in a state primary school with 10-15 girls in the girls’ toilets when I was in year 1-3. We were exposed to pornography at school when I was about 7-8yrs old and I had witnessed a group rape at school. I could detail the sexual activities we did together, but it is depravity to recall this information. I have talked to counselling staff at the Victorian child sexual abuse centre about child-on-child sexual abuse. When I was growing up it was common to sleep with our girlfriends, and things crossed over between friendship to sexual activities. This is the reason people come out gay or lesbian. There are secrets that none of us want to repeat to anyone. Unfortunately, the love-hate relationship I had with my girlfriend ended when we nearly killed each other in the girls’ toilets at school. The principal warned us with the stick to stay away from each other. When I went to high school, I knew one of my friends was a lesbian before she ‘came out’ as an adult. When I was 16yrs old, it was quite acceptable in Sydney to kiss my girlfriend and hold her hand in public. I do believe the bisexual feelings are a result of both boys and girls were physically attracted to me. The comments they made – “You were beautiful, but difficult to go out with.”

            There is no requirement for gays or lesbians to have never had sexual intercourse with the opposite-sex. How do I know the love for my girlfriend is different to the love I have for my husband and children? You try and make out this love is the same to be called marriage. However, for a person who has experienced both, I know this is not true. I can’t pretend that sexual activities are the same as sexual intercourse to be called marriage. You can remain ignorant, and believe that the sexual activities you do with your same-sex friend are the same as sexual intercourse, but you’re only deceiving yourself from the truth. My distant relative believed he was on the right side of history, and had a love and romance for the Nazi Party, and he paid the ultimate price with his life for killing Jews, homosexuals and anybody else that the Nazis hated. The LGBTIAQ lobby-dictators are the same as the Nazi Party as they want power and control to rule over our government, companies, businesses, unions and communities including schools, health services, churches, sporting groups -AFL, welfare agencies, families, parents and individuals. I don’t have to obey the LGTBIAQ lobby-dictators whom want to exchange a true marriage for a legal, man-made “open marriage” between any two people. This is as corrupt and deceptive if the government was trying to exchange gold for monopoly money. I will destroy my legal marriage certificate if the government changes the Marriage Act. I don’t have to identify my marriage as a man-made “open marriage” between any 2 people. The LGBTIQA lobby-dictators should only have power and control to rule over their own people. What right does a company, business or union have in deciding Australians should all have a legal, man-made “open marriage” between any 2 people? The LGBTIAQ lobby-dictators are so powerful that they threatening companies and the Victorian government and schools which don’t obey their orders. Parents will have to be like the atheist parent who removed her children from the State school so they weren’t exposed to the LGBTIAQ mind-set.

            I am trying to make an honest person out of you. You should read the article in the Age today, by the Bishops of the Catholic Church. They have warned both political parties to keep a traditional marriage as we live in a throw away society. Australians need to protect marriage and families from the deviant (unusual) sexual activities which are destroying people’s lives and relationships, for example it isn’t usual for a married man to only want to watch porn and masturbate. There are people who have changed from the LGBTIAQ mind-set, and are living in a happy married family with biological children. I grew up in a very immoral environment where all the sexualities were practiced. When I was a teenager, a gay couple had come out of the “gay life-style” by giving their life to Christ. They told me 75-85% of homosexuals had experienced sexual abuse. Bob Brown came out this year about his child sexual abuse at school by a male teacher. This teacher sodomised an 11yr old boy. The Royal Commission into child sexual abuse has reported in the Age of men feeling gay and living the “gay life-style” because they had experienced sexual activities (a sexual organ with a non-sexual organ – anal and oral sexual activities, mind-sex – pornography, hand sex – masturbation). I have to totally ignore your comments about my profession because you have no qualifications in health. Your put-down comments are a reflection on yourself. All Australians should read about the sexual activities involved in the gay life-style, and they should read the public health warnings about homosexual practices as it is dangerous to mix these with sexual intercourse. 2 eggs, 2 sperm, 2 vaginas or 2 penises have no scientific name. Therefore, it is impossible for them to marry (unite) each other. Marriage has everything to do with a sexual union, otherwise we would call it a friendship or business partnership. I will expose the corruption and deception of the LGBTIAQ-lobby dictators mind-set if I ever have to present my case before the anti-discrimination board. The gay fashion designers whom spoke out against changing the Marriage Act were scared about losing their business. However, I am not scared about communicating the truth about sexual activities aren’t the same as sexual intercourse to be called marriage. If you disagree with my conclusion please argue a case for “open marriage” between any two people. I AM INTERESTED TO READ YOUR ARGUMENT, BUT I AM NOT YOUR PUNCHING BAG. SO PLEASE STOP ATTACKING PEOPLE.

          • JT,

            Doctors and nurses, public health and health authorities use the the media to inform the community about subjective and objective health and relationship problems like sexual activities such as anal and oral sexual activities, mind-sex (pornography, virtual world sex), hand sex (masturbation, fisting, fingering), pretend sexual organs (robotic sex toys, dutch dolls etc), chem (drug) sex. There are Married men suffering from sexuality problems

            Many homosexuals have expressed their homosexuality experience started at a young age. Therefore, it is likely you have had experienced sexual activities with same-sex friends or a adult/s at a young age like I did. Since I was a child I was unable to consent and this is called “sexual assault.” The government has to seriously consider the consequences if they encourage and promote homosexuality and transgender experiences at a young age because children can’t consent to sexual activities. How will they stop child sexual abuse? There are sexual activities which I experienced which are worse than group rape and my girlfriend and I nearly killing each other. There are sexual activities which are so evil and wicked that they come from Hell or the devil, and gives depravity a whole new level of meaning. Same-sex couples believe in love, but I understand the term “love you to death.” The Chem-sex documentary in London reported of at least 5 gay men contracting HIV every week. A gay man describe the addiction of drugs with sex. The desire for a sexual orgasm with a same-sex partner and drugs means they put their health at risk of contracting HIV/AIDS because they refuse to use safe-sex practices. The Age recently reported it cost the government approximately $14 000 per person for one year of treatment -HIV, and there are approximately 27 000 HIV patients in Australia. Most of these patients are men who have sex with men.

            The fantasy “open marriage” between any 2 people is to deceive people into believing that sexual activities are a loving act. There is nothing loving in using an organ against its function because in science this is called “abuse.” There are doctors and nurses whom smoke, but this doesn’t make smoking normal, natural, healthy, moral, or usual. Therefore, you have friends whom are gay doctors, but this doesn’t make sexual activities natural, healthy, moral or usual. The LGBTIAQ lobby dictators mind-set is a practice of death, and I will warn people against the practice of sexual activities with sexual intercourse because these can cause a shorten life-span.

        • JT,

          You lost the debate. I have to ignore your comments because you keep attacking the person, and you have NO ARGUMENT for a legal man-made “open marriage” between any 2 people for the purpose of including same-sex couples.

          You claim to be the expert by the power and control you have dictated on what is RIGHT and WRONG. Your strategy of putting a woman down , then attacking the person by trying to discredit their ability and profession is not uncommon for women to experience this in family violence. You may want to remain genderless, but you have made comments which are extremely obvious that your a male. Women (including lesbians) don’t make comments such as “I have lots of gay friends.” Also, women (including lesbians) don’t fixate on anal sex because the majority don’t want it as there are serious health and relationship problems. Plus, you suggested I may still hate men. This suggests you are a male because I don’t like your LGBTIAQ lobby dictator mind-set, nor do I like cantankerous men. However, there are faceless men in the world, and now there are males that don’t even know if they’re a man.

          Women are constantly bullied on the internet by men like you. I am not at all scared of you, nor your mind-set. Don’t you have something intelligent to say about marriage? Your put down words like “childish,” “digging yourself deeper” and “I don’t want to engage with you any further” are all attempts for you to back out of a serious debate about marriage. You can remain ignorant of the science and health warnings about the homosexual lifestyle. There are even health warnings on LGBTIAQ websites about their health and relationship problems. I am not against gay people as my boyfriend is gay, my son’s voice teacher is gay, my daughter’s friends have lesbian mums and my daughter’s prep teacher is gay. I can still remember living close to a gay neighbour who was in his 40’s when he died within six months of moving to the apartments. A lesbian teacher at my girls’ school died at 39yrs old so this impacted a lot on the whole school environment. I love my girlfriend whom I have known all my life, but this is a different love to my husband and my children. You have an uneducated habit of mixing people with behaviours. For example, I can love my children, but hate them stealing or cheating. Somehow, you get confused by putting these two things together. When I discuss health and relationship issues with the general public I use reports that people can get access to the information on the internet. People don’t want to read a scientific report on a blog site. I will continue to repeat health reports from doctors and public health that use newspapers because Australians should be informed, and this information is easy to understand for the general public. I don’t understand the reason you tend to chuck the baby out with the bath water or go to extremes. I made a truthful comment about never working with a gay surgeon, specialist doctor or doctor despite my extensive experience in specialist areas within a number of teaching hospitals. I have worked closely with them, socialised outside of work and would have known if they were gay. However, my truthful comment got the truth out of you, but you need to start behaving honestly and STOP ATTACKING PEOPLE. WE ARE NOT YOUR PUNCHING BAG. I never stated, “you had OCD.” However, you’re repeatedly attacking people with no qualifications in Health, and this isn’t usual behaviour for anyone. Therefore, I suggested you need serious help if you are going to be continually be verbally violent towards women. I suggested this maybe an OCD problem for you, but this isn’t an offence to people whom suffer mental illness. If you were too ashamed to admit you have an OCD problem, then people with mental illness would take offence to you (this is an example).

          If your unable to provide a logical and rational argument based on scientific reasoning for the government to exchange a true marriage for an “open marriage,” then I at least know your a coward who uses violence against women. THE LAW IS UNABLE TO TREAT EQUALLY A MAN-MADE “OPEN MARRIAGE” BETWEEN ANY TWO PEOPLE AS THE SAME AS A TRUE MARRIAGE BASED ON A SEXUAL UNION -SEXUAL INTERCOURSE “ONE FLESH” – (BODY-MIND-SOUL) BETWEEN ONE MAN AND ONE WOMAN, EXCLUDING ALL OTHERS FOR THE BENEFIT OF CHILDREN. Please provide evidence for the reasons Australian married couples should exchange a true marriage for a man-made “open marriage” between any 2 people.

          Please re-read your comments to me, and seriously evaluate your hatred of a woman you don’t even know. Since you claim to be the expert in English it would be a good practice for you to correct your own grammar. I am looking forward to reading your very intelligent argument for a man-made “open marriage” between any 2 people. Most married people don’t identify their marriage as an “open marriage,” but your argument might convince them to exchange their true marriage for a man-made “open marriage” between any 2 people.

  4. Sex is binary, they say gender identity is fluid. The first is objective, the latter is subjective, abstract even.
    I believe science and our laws and child education ought to take the objective view.
    Just one question JT above: How is it that “sex has never been just about making babies, marriage has never been just about making a baby either.”?
    When did sex and marriage stop being about reproduction?
    I’m guessing soon!

    • Jt

      So on one hand you want science, our laws and children’s education to be based on the objective and not the subjective, but when it comes to marriage you want to impose quite a subjective view.

      Let’s be objective about your question then Mikel… From the beginning of human existence sex has not been about creating a baby. It actually took quite some time for many different cultures and civilisations to make a connection that having sexual intercourse between a man and a woman would sometimes result in offspring 9 months later. Do you believe every culture and every civilisation automatically knew this? If you’re objective you would realise that they were just having sexual intercourse (including homosexual) for the pleasure of it, because they were driven to do it. Not to make a baby.

      Flash forward to today, a lot of people have had a lot of sex, did a baby result every time from that? Could you imagine if it did? Why do you think we have contraception? Sexual intercourse and sexual reproduction are two different things…

      Let’s continue to be objective then and consider when marriage stopped being about reproduction…well it was never exclusively about reproduction was it?
      You cannot just ignore all the married couples who don’t have any children, if marriage were exclusively for reproduction then they wouldn’t be married would they? No.

  5. Yes, we are more aware than our prehistory ancestors. That’s why laws about civil behaviour and marriage were introduced.
    We now know that sexual reproduction necessitates male and female union to reproduce. That is the driving force in all sexual creatures and plants. And that is a scientific objective fact – It is a binary union of opposite sexes.
    Do you prefer to remain ignorant like those cavemen? Or should we be rational about this.
    It is well known that homosexual behaviour in many animals is simply an instinctive show of dominance or submission.
    If we are ruled by our instinct then we have no free will. That is what it means to give in to the fleshly desires. Like mere animals.
    Humans have a concsience, yes?

  6. JT

    I was answering your question and you’ve just gone and taken my response completely out of context.

    I’m trying to illustrate to you the difference between sexual intercourse and sexual reproduction.

    I’m not trying to remain ignorant, yes we now live in an age where we are enlightened (some of us) but that still doesn’t change the fact that we don’t just have sex purely to make babies, if you believe this then you are beyond ignorant and quite frankly delusional.

    Do you think all animals have sex because they know it will produce offspring?

    It’s difficult to have a constructive debate when you take things out of context and go off on tangents.

  7. I thought you were going on a tangent, and I was sticking to my own point about being objective.
    I know all animals don’t have sex for the purpose of reproduction. As I said it could be a gesture of domination or submission.
    I don’t get your point about the difference between sexual intercourse and sexual reproduction.
    Intercourse does not require reproduction, and vice versa?

  8. I’ve got an anecdote to share:
    I was sitting on a beach once and a dog comes hanging around and decides to mount me from the behind! … Put’s it paws on my shoulders and starts humping.!!! Yeah, it sounds funny. haha
    I’ve got no idea what that dog was thinking but it wasn’t normal behaviour… NOT acceptable!. And let me tell you I didn’t submit and there was definitely no intercourse involved.
    I shoved sand in it’s face and it bolted.

    Anyway JT, you were questioning Janine. carry on.
    I still stand by my inititial statement –
    Sex is binary, gender identity is fluid. The first is objective, the latter is subjective, abstract even.
    I believe science and our laws and child education ought to take the objective view.

  9. I have to add:
    JT you asserted that marriage was never exclusively about reproduction.
    I suggested that’s why civil laws and marriage laws were enacted in the first place.
    Precisely for the reason to protect the family unit that is now being dismantled and already corrupt in the legal system.

    No tangent there.
    Just saying.

  10. JT

    Mikel, I think you have a good mind but you need to expand your horizons a little and stop looking at things so black and white.

    If you truly want to consider things objectively then you need to stop looking for the easy answers that seem logical on the surface while you ignore all the other aspects. It’s nice to be able to think this is a perfect world and that X must be true because it fits with Y and because these fit there’s no other possibilities so case closed. But we don’t live in a perfect world, and we never will.

    There are many aspects and reasons why marriages have been constructed, and they’ve worked differently in different societies. It’s never been exclusively for reproduction. It’s certainly not exclusively about reproduction in our society.

    Marriage laws are a construct and they don’t really do anything to protect the family unit, there are other laws in place for this.

    Families and marriages can already be dismantled. Allowing gay couples to marry wouldn’t affect this in any way. All gay marriage aims to do is provide equality for everyone.

    Don’t jump on the idealist bandwagon, you’re intelligent and you can develop your own ideas so I hope you keep analysing these issues objectively and in context.

  11. I agree that we don’t just have sex purely to have babies.
    But when we don’t, there is no reason to call it marriage.

    When a man and a woman create a new life, they are morally and legally obliged to care for that life.

    That is why the ancients developed marriage laws. That is why we should stick with that particular definition of marriage. Not revert to ignorant, unconscious animal instinct.

    • JT

      Again Mikel it’s not that black and white,

      When a man and a woman create a new life they are not automatically legally married nor are they expected to be, likewise when a man and a woman get legally married they are not obliged to create a new life.

      Therefore it cannot be said that marriage in our society is about creating and caring for a new life. It might be the case as part of your religious institution but not in a legal sense. It’s about a law change not how new life is created and cared for.

      This is an example of thinking about the issue objectively, and logically.

      • Yeah no.. – I think it is black and white, from an objective view.
        When two people create a child they are not legally married as you say, but both are legally and morally responsible, regardless of their carelessness or desires or intentions. Unless it’s rape of course, in which case only one is accountable for his violent behavior. Why should society be expected to pick up the broken pieces of copulations because people are mere animals and can’t control themselves?
        I believe that was a good, practical reason to establish marriage in the first place – to ensure the parents remain responsible for their children, regardless of who invented it or what religious persuasion.
        As you said marriage in our society is not about creating and caring for a new life. No…. not anymore, and it doesn’t surprise me that so many are quite happy about that.

        It’s about a law change as you say, and this a democracy. It definitely is not a theocracy.

        Objectively, there is no right or wrong on this issue.

        It is about changing an accepted definition which many of us want to keep as it is.
        So let’s vote. Bring on the plebicite and we can settle this.
        I’d like to quote the bible, but I’ll do it in a separate post. I don’t think you’ll like it.
        Good discussion JT. You got me thinking.

        • Sex is binary, female and male, – like black and white. Gender identity is fluid, on a scale like a rainbow.
          Rainbows are subjective experiences.
          How can you be objective if you are in the rainbow?
          Is this not logical.

  12. And that is what we need to teach the kids at school. The facts. Not the subjective experience of a few. We all have our own subjective experience.
    The LGBTQI identity is well known now and accepted, that’s understandable but demanding that marriage be changed is going too far in my opinion, it is becoming unreasonable. Civil unions I agree with.

  13. Just to point out: The AMF has not removed a comment calling for gay people to be executed over two days after it was posted, when they removed one of mine less than one day after it was posted.

  14. Come off it Nick, Benjamin was referring to the old testament law. The LBGT are accepted now in society. They and you are valid peope like anyone else. – there are laws against discrimination now let alone capital punishment. I would’ve liked to have seen your deleted post too, though.

    I believe the supporters of traditional marriage will not submit to redefining it. This is not a legal or religious matter, it is fundamentally, a biological one.
    I’d like to know who decides how the plebicite will be worded. I hope it distinguishes between marriage and civil union.

    Italy has just legalized same sex civil unions with no need to to redefine marriage.
    Sounds fair to me. Who is Australia, (or anyone) to redefine marriage? Marriage is becoming a slang word or idiom of certain cultures. Not conveying the literal meaning to outsiders of that culture. Just like the word “gay” that has become so popular.
    When I was younger, my friends and I used slang and even used words out of context like a kind of code between us. Most kids go through a stage of rebellion against authority.

    It’s time to grow up. Marriage is an instittution developed by our predecessors to protect children from being fatherless. That is to say – If a man impregnates a woman, then he is responsible. What else is the responsible thing to do?
    Am I wrong?
    The number of single mothers and divorces are a telling sign that the institution of marriage is already corrupt, (and note that this is a recent trend). Gay marriage is like a death blow to whatever is left of the importance of marriage.
    I don’t think marriage is important to Gays at all. The demand for it is simply a response to the previous discrimination… – it is counter-discrimination.

    How about a truce? – Civil Unions? That’s fair eh?

    Of course people get married and have no offspring. In that case it is a fruitless marriage.
    There’s a huge step to equate that with SSM.
    Gay marriage is a fruitless marriage to begin with by natural design.

    • “Come off it Nick, Benjamin was referring to the old testament law.”

      Which he supports. That’s a massive problem. The Bible, as a source of morality, is almost exclusively horrible.

      • Yes Nick, I see your point. I’ll let Benjamin speak for himself.
        I agree the reference about putting homosexuals to death was unnecessary and unhelpful. even provocative.

    • Mikel,
      I totally agree with your comment. Australians need to keep marriage separate because men and women should protect their special sexual union which is the only way of of creating natural, biological children. Married couples who have religious beliefs add meaning to this natural, biological sexual intercourse “one flesh” (mind-body-soul) between one man and one woman, excluding all others for the benefit of children.

      • You made some good points too Janine. I imagine there are many people who have experimented with sex… Especially during puberty when hormones are rife. It is natural for children and teenagers to be confused about their sexual feelings and to experiment. I won’t go into my own experiences of going through adolescence. I’m sure we all have experiences we’d rather forget.
        I think that may be why so many are supporting gay marriage when gays are a minority,- they’ve had homosexual experiences in the past, so to consider it abnormal is to imply guilt on themselves, so they get on the bandwagon for support to appease their own feelings of guilt.

        But that mindset only encourages chiIdren to question themselves instead of providing guidance for them.

        I consider myself lucky to have been raised in a household where my mother and father stayed true to their marriage vows.
        I only wish there were no such things as broken families. But since there are, we don’t want to make it worse by changing marriage and making it obsolete.

        The saying from the bible, “A man and a woman will join and the two will become one flesh”. I believe it is about the union of the genetic material of the parents in creating a child.
        Two flesh become one. There is no such union in any other combination other than male and female.

        NOT because the bible says so, but because it is scientific fact.
        What is so hard to undersatand about that, I don’t know. That is basic sex education. Well, … it was back then, 3000 years ago at least. Come to think of it, that’s what I was taught and found to be true, and I’m not THAT old.
        Nowadays?… who knows what they’re teaching at school.

        • Thanks for your comment Mikel. I used to feel extremely bad about myself as a child/teenager to the point that suicide appeared like a perfect solution to my problems. It is amazing that the grace of God by Jesus’s death on the cross can pay the price for such evil behaviours. God love for me was so great, that he provided the perfect husband for me, and my children haven’t struggled with my problems. I don’t want another child to be corrupted and deceived by an immoral environment. We have a duty to keep Marriage between one man and one woman for the benefit of the next generation of children. Australian men urgently need to stand up and protect their women. It was a huge mistake for German men not to protect their women from sexual assault on New Years Eve. The LGBTIAQ lobby-dictators should only have power and control over their own people. The majority of Australian married couples should have the right to discriminate their marriage against a legal “open marriage.”

  15. That’s why it’s called SSM and not M 🙂

  16. It’s now more than three days after his comment was posted and the AMF still has not deleted it. By comparison, they deleted mine calling someone “stupid and hateful” in less than one day.

  17. NW

    Really looking forward to this presentation. I’m labelled ‘homophobic’ at uni because I don’t believe homosexual relationships can equate to marriage. I want to eliminate homophobia as much as anyone so I’m looking forward to gaining some knowledge from this discussion.

  18. Admin, just so you know: I’m taking a screenshot of the comment calling for gay people to be executed with my calendar in view every day you don’t delete it. I’m going to upload it to the Internet, and people will know about it. You’re now on day four.

    • AJ

      Nick, just so you know, I’ve been through the plethora of comments on this thread and can’t find the comment you’re referring to. Can you please send us the screen shot and we’ll remove the offending comment. We certainly do not condone, nor encourage any statements like this.

  19. CM

    I believe that marriage is for reproducing and I’d love to remind people that if a child can only be created by a male and female then it means the child needs both the male and female in its life. Removing either father or mother is deliberalty making the child miss out. As the AMF states….marriage equality? what about equality for the child? SSM is really about adults wanting to satisfy their sexual and emotional needs and desires without thinking about the consequences it has on a child. And not only the child…they themselves.

    Also…don’t forget that legalising SSM means the Safe Schools project will be legalised. It’s a package deal. No sane person should agree with the Safe Schools. Look up their resources and see for yourself….that is not a way to make school safe. There are many other ways to go about it rather than exposing innocent and vulnerable children to sexual ideas.

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